Role Model Has Some Breakup Advice for You

It would be hard for Role Model not to feel like he’s on top of the world right now. The 27-year-old musician released his second studio album, Kansas Anymore, back in July with an expanded deluxe version in February, and he spent a month on the road with Gracie Abrams this fall before kicking off his own headlining run. Moments from his tour have gone viral on social media, with his devoted fans lining up hours in advance for a chance to jump around with him onstage during his hit “Sally, When the Wine Runs Out” — that is when he doesn’t enlist one of his famous pals, like Reneé Rapp, to take on the role.

But when Kansas Anymore first came out, it found Role Model in a very different place in life: He was a young man in the throes of his first major heartbreak after his split from social media star Emma Chamberlain. The artist is open and honest about his feelings of grief and homesickness on the album, as seen in songs like “Francis” and “Oh, Gemini.” And behind the scenes, he was desperately trying to find his place in the music industry.

Needless to say, a lot has changed for the artist, real name Tucker Pillsbury, in the past year. “I feel like people have just been watching me slowly, like, figure it out,” Role Model tells Rolling Stone of his meteoric rise.

Rolling Stone caught up with Role Model to discuss Kansas Anymore, overcoming heartbreak, and the importance of living life both online and offline.

You called your first headlining tour the No Place Like Tour. How did life on the road treat you?
The best part of touring is just being onstage. I feel like we have so many fun moments now, and it’s not the same show every night. We’ve kind of shaped the show in a way where there’s something different every night, especially with the “Sally” thing. But traveling … I love that I get to see new cities, but I fucking hate traveling and living out of a bag, and not not having my own space. I like my little routine and my little life and all my stuff.

Looking back at Kansas Anymore, what does that album represent to you?
I think the one thing I wanted to prove when I first put it out was my growth — my songwriting and my taste in music had matured, and I had also matured as a person. It felt like a big shift in the way I would talk about things and write about them, and a big part of that was just me getting to a place on guitar where I could play well enough that I could write songs by myself on it.

The album explores the raw and honest themes of heartbreak, self-doubt, and feelings of homesickness. How do you decide how personal to get with your music versus what you want to keep private?
I don’t think there’s any thought to it, to be honest. I think it’s a product of my personality, there’s no part of me that’s like, “Oh, I’m trying to spill tea about fucking specifics and a relationship falling apart.” No, I will always blame myself for everything, no matter what. Whether it’s relationships, friendships, or just anything in life, I’m quick to take it out on myself. I don’t have it in me to write breakup songs where it’s like, “Fuck you. You were the worst thing ever.” I don’t think I’ve ever really felt that about anyone, ever. So, my journal probably looks the same way as me writing a song. It’s just a product of how I think and process things, and how I try to look back in a loving way.

After writing about and experiencing heartbreak yourself, do you have advice for anyone going through a similar situation?
I think when you’re deep in a relationship, there’s just a thing that happens where you accidentally cut off a lot of people in your life because you’re just hyperfocused on this one person who just becomes, like, the center of your world. You slowly stop talking to your closest friends. It’s beautiful to make someone the center of your world, but it’s a dark place to be when that relationship ends, and you wake up, the fog clears, and you’re like, “Oh, shit, I have not talked to my best friend in four months.” That’s what happened to me.

I struggled making friends in Los Angeles, but l hit a point when I was just like, “I can’t live like this. I need to push myself to make friends in the city.” And I eventually found, like, a group of amazing friends out here that made dealing with a breakup very easy. It gives you, in a weird way, independence. When I first came out of my relationship, I felt this urgency to immediately start dating again. But once I started spending time with my friends, that feeling went away completely. And even now, I still don’t have that feeling at all.

The short answer is, go make friends and push yourself to make friends, because it helps.

Fans seem to love to make edits of you and your ex, Emma Chamberlain, on TikTok set to your songs. Does that ever get to you?
No, no, it doesn’t. There’s really not much on the internet that gets to me. I think I’m, like, just old enough to where I have seen life without TikTok and stuff. I don’t think there’s anything on Twitter, TikTok, or whatever that truly gets to me in any way. It’s just a weird dope bubble of not anything real.

Well, between fans, your shows, and your personal account, your face is all over TikTok these days.
I own shares. I purchased it when it was getting banned. No, it’s really cool. I guess the power of touring just kind of puts you in front of a bunch of phones every night. So, I think that’s a powerful thing, and it’s cool that touring is still important and has an impact on people’s careers. I say this all the time, and Twitter gets mad at me, but I try not to shower in it and bathe in the fact that my face is on the internet a lot right now, because it just comes and goes. And I think if you obsess over it while it’s happening, it makes it really hard when it’s not, so I try not to get very excited about.

That sounds like a healthy relationship with social media — I don’t think most people would have that restraint. I still watch my own Instagram Stories …
Oh, I do that. I do catch myself doing that a lot, I feel like that’s normal now. I have a lot of famous people now following me, and so I like to watch my Instagram stories from their point of view, and be like, “Would I hate this kid? Would I unfollow them?”

Most of what I see from your shows online has been the viral “Sally” moments. How do you choose your Sally for each show?
It’s different every night, but we basically look for energy, like how much fun someone is having and how hard they are going during the show, or sometimes even the preshow playlist. And so it can be in the back of the venue, it can be at the barricade, it can be anywhere. We just keep our eyes open to whoever’s giving the most energy. All the Sallys have just been the coolest. I’m very lucky we have every night, it’s a crowd of the coolest girls around.