If you’re not familiar with Loyle Carner on this side of the pond, it will only take a short listen to his introspective catalog to get familiar. The London-born artist has been making music for more than a decade, since quitting drama school and delving into rap in 2014. His debut album, 2017’s Yesterday’s Gone, was nominated for a Mercury Prize and two Brit Awards. Four albums later, he’s become a respected artist known for existentialist expression.
His latest project, Hopefully !, which came out on June 20, is still an unabashed personal excavation, but shows him trying new things creatively, including singing, which he does on lead single “in my mind.” He crafted a five-piece band of friends for the project, which started with jam sessions that he eventually realized had taken the shape of an album.
The 30-year-old artist recently became a father for the second time, and says his children played a major part in the project: He became more comfortable singing on the project through their lullabies, and in the middle of recording sessions, he’d pick his son up from a nursery. (His son’s scribbles also appear on the album’s cover art.) Often, the songs that drew on Carner’s darker, more cynical perspective were accentuated with the kind of buoyancy that only a child can stoke. “In essence, [Honestly !] is a day in the life of a kid through the kid’s eyes, but also it is not a kid’s eyes, it’s my eyes,” he says. “I think it’s about trying to give your inner child a little bit of space to breathe and to be.”
He says he fell in love with the guitar while introducing his kids to new artists, and the instrument ended up playing a heavy part on the album. Throughout 11 songs full of meditative strings and grime-inspired drums, Carner goes deep. Nick Hakim (on “don’t fice it”) and Navy Blue join him on the project, with the latter dropping a verse on “purpose.” The result is an album where Carner is still not afraid to examine his shortcomings, like he does on “Lyin,” but also one where he shows a renewed optimism about life.
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Carner spoke with Rolling Stone about his new project, fatherhood, and getting back into acting.
This is your first project since Hugo in 2022. Where has life taken you since then?
Good, man. I had my second child, my daughter. That was the most profound thing that happened. I’ve been able to spend so much time with them. I’ve been traveling the world and they’ve been able to come with me. To see the world through my kids’ eyes has helped me see it for what it is, to see the wonder in it again and the joy of it, instead of being a bit more cynical, I guess, before I had kids. I think that’s why we called it Hopefully !, because we could see some hope finally.
What else have you learned from fatherhood?
Learn how to be kind to myself, how to be critical of myself, how to be braver about confronting who I am. A kid is a complete reflection of who you are, and there’s bits that you like and bits that you don’t like, that maybe you didn’t know were there. I think [fatherhood] forces you to wrestle with who you actually are. I learned that … and it’s a bit more hard to be present and hard to sleep in any scenario.
One thing that strikes me about your catalog is your introspection. Where did your comfort with vulnerability as a writer come from? Was that ever a challenge for you?
Probably from my mom. My mom is a teacher of literacy and educational needs. She read to me a lot. So I guess when I started writing, I was thinking about it more as something that would be anonymous. What I knew, to be an author of books or to be an author of plays and scripts and movies, the writer is never in front of you. You don’t see who’s writing it. And I was approaching my writing in the same way. But with music, you end up being at the forefront as well. So I guess that was kind of by accident.
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What was some of your earliest writing?
I was at school and I looked the way I did, and people assumed that if I had an interest in writing that I should try poetry or rap music, but there wasn’t much space at the time to really…. I didn’t feel like people were helping me push my way into the world of literacy to be into literature. It was more about writing music or poetry. So yeah, I guess it is hard to be it if you can’t see it. I didn’t see many people standing up for the things I wanted to do. I fell into poetry and through that started to put it to music and that’s where I ended up.
You’ve said that Langston Hughes is an influence for you. What makes his work special to you, and how do you feel like it reflects in your work?
The reason why his poetry is so important to me is because it was some of the first poetry that I heard instead of read. “The Negro Speaks of Rivers” and some of the pieces from Weary Blues. I’d heard his voice, and I think that poetry is meant to be heard, not read in a way. To hear it spoken helped me unlock in my brain how it was meant to be digested, or it helped me appreciate it. I think he’s the first poet I heard speak their own poetry, way before I heard Gil Scott-Heron or anyone like that.
Would you say you’re an avid reader?
I’m an avid audiobook reader, if that counts. I’m so dyslexic, man, it takes me so long. I’ve been rereading a book that my mom read to me when I was young called Life of Pi, and it’s written so beautifully, one of the best books to my mind. Just the ideas bursting out of the book [are] very special. I try and digest as many words as I can when I’m driving mostly.
What are some of your favorite genres or types of books to digest?
I rarely read fiction, actually. So Life of Pi reminded me how special it can be. I read a lot of books on, I wouldn’t say self-help, but books that are exploring something about humanity. I read a book called Humankind, which was about human nature and if human beings are kind or not, which is a really beautiful book actually, and really hopeful and quite a big inspiration for this album. I try and read things that interest me, things that are either about food or about a band that I love, an autobiography or something. I read a lot of things that are nonfiction. I guess that’s kind of my space. I find it easier to digest.
You said the book is called Humankind?
Yeah. It’s by a guy called Rutger Bregman. He’s from the Netherlands. He’s basically looking at, if people are so great, why does bad shit happen? And it’s really interesting. It starts off talking about us as a community, that we’re nomadic and we’re traveling so much and you were meeting so many people — whereas now we’re surrounded by people, but because we don’t move, we don’t necessarily need them in the same way. And so you can be living in a block, but all the people are strangers to you. Whereas before, if there was people close to you, you’d be like, “What can I trade? What do you have to eat? Is this very safe? Have you tried it?” So yeah, we’re closer than ever, but further away I guess.
How do you feel like reading that influenced your songwriting?
When I came into the book, I was pessimistic. It’s easier to be pessimistic or cynical and tough on myself in a way. I think what it did was helped me see that human nature at its core is very beautiful, and that it’s not that good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but people do things and they’re a product of their environment and what they’ve grown through and what they’ve experienced. I think to lead with empathy and understanding is essential. It gave me a bit more hope in myself that I know what I’m doing and I’m on the right track and I’m not a bad person. When you’re raising a kid and you think about all the mad shit that’s happening around the world. to think how people can get like that, I don’t want my kids to end up in that situation. So try to understand why.
Who’s in the band you worked with to craft this project?
It’s a guy on drums called Richard Spaven, who’s an incredible drummer, Finn Carter on the Keys, Yves Fernandez on the bass, Abby Barath on the synthesizers, and Raquel Martins on guitar. It was about being around friends, I think for so long when it comes to music, especially rap, the idea of being sent beats and then it’s almost finished, but you’ve got to finish it with what you say…. The pressure of that sometimes could be a bit debilitating for me. And I think being in a room with people as the nucleus of an idea is forming for me is always much more special than being given a finished article. Sometimes with a rap producer, you can have that too, but it’s rare. I also love the anonymity of a band, [where] it’s not about me, it’s about us as a collective. I really enjoy being able to slip into the background of the story.
Were there times when you were sent beats and it took a while to finish?
Yeah. I got sent the biggest pack of beats from Madlib, and that’s my hero, probably my favorite producer that’s alive for sure. He’s been a soundtrack to a lot of my life, and it has touched a lot of the music that I’m a big fan of. It was in that process that I realized how hard I was finding it because it was so inspiring, so exciting, but still, there were times where I was like, “Fuck, man, I wish I was in the room with him.” I don’t know what his intentions were, what movie he was watching when he made it or whatever and all that. It’s quite a lonely process. And at this point in my life, I made a lot of music. I’ve recorded to 20 or 30 of his beats and they’re sitting there, who knows what I’ll do with a lot of them. But that was probably the last time for me. I was like, “You know what? I enjoyed this because of how special it was, but I don’t think anyone could top those beats.”
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What time period were you writing to those beats?
I was working on my last album and at one point I was like, “Maybe I’ll do a whole me and Madlib album.” Two of the songs that we made filtered onto my album. But yeah, I wanted to save the rest and see. [It’s from] a tough time, that music. It’s not always easy to revisit that shit.
What kind of sounds did you have in your head for this album?
I wasn’t listening to a lot of rap music, really, and haven’t been for a while. Not that I don’t love it still, but it’s only a part of what I listened to and what I grew up on. With my kids, I was listening to alternative music that I’ve always listened to. I was trying to give them a picture of the mix of stuff that you can listen to. And through that I was hearing a lot more guitar than I’d anticipated, and then it made me fall back in love with the guitar because a lot of my family play it. When I was a bit younger, I guess I rejected it. I found my way back to that. So I guess the sound of it, in essence, revolves around the guitar in all of its permutations. The idea of someone like Elliott Smith, just guitar and one person, or something as obvious as Red Hot Chili Peppers. Everything was centered around the guitar.
You’re singing on this project. Had you considered that before? What made now the time to try it?
Never. If you’d have asked me last year, even when I’ve made some of this music, I’d have been like, “There’s not a way people are going to hear it.” I think it was being with my kids, man, again, it’s so obvious to say, but I was singing to them, putting them to bed, and my son singing in the car. And it kind of made me realize that it wasn’t so much about if you can sing, but if you’re willing to sing, because I don’t believe that I’m good at singing or that I have any chops. Really, it’s not my intention. I wasn’t thinking it through, to be honest. I was doing what felt right in the moment. But to articulate how I feel about them, I couldn’t put it into words. I kept trying to write these elaborate verses about my love for my kids, and it was redundant because there’s not enough words in the world. It became something that had to transcend words.
Do you feel like going forward you’ll implement that in your craft more?
Potentially? Yeah. I mean, it feels good. I’ll see how people take it. If everyone hates it, then actually I’ll probably still do it.
On “Lyin,” you say, “Just a man trying to kill/To love you I never had the skill.” How do you resonate with that line?
People teach you how to be tough, you know what I mean? People that I’m looking at for guidance or whatever — there [weren’t] any men in my life [who] taught me how to love. All of my close relatives, my dad, my uncles and whatever, none of them are with their partners still. All I see is a lot of examples of how not to approach a relationship or to approach love in any capacity…. To love kids or your partner or your friends, it’s a hard thing to do and takes constant work. And I don’t think anyone really explained that to me. I felt like I was just a soldier, man, built for one thing, but it’s not the thing I want to do.
There’s another line from” Time Ago” that I wanted to ask you about: “Pressure on my brain/Killing the legend of my name/Wondering if I’ll ever feel the same.” What’s the process of killing the legend of your name?
I guess it’s more like the more you do, the more you can compromise what you have. And so you have to be so detailed in the things you do. I feel like I built up a persona of something that was hopeful and positive. And sometimes when I don’t feel like that, it’s like I’m living an opposite. So people come to me and they’re like, “Yo, you’re such a positive guy, you’re so optimistic and good to people and whatever.” And if I’m having a bad day or I’m going through it, I feel like I’m shattering the illusion of the idea that people have from me, I guess. And in a way, I kind of have it for myself. I’m a positive guy, but some days you don’t feel like that. What does it do to other people? What does it do to yourself?
The first two tracks you rolled out from this project were “all I need” and “in my mind.” What made those two the ones you wanted to go with?
They were different to the stuff I had done before, and I was very proud of them. And I was also quite nervous about any of the songs that were melodic. I thought it made sense to put my scariest foot forward straight away — not apologize for it, but be confident.
How are you feeling about going on tour?
Excited, man. It feels like the right time. I felt quite lucky because the last time I was on tour, I was in a heavy spot and the music we were playing was quite dense and aggressive and it was nice, but it felt like a lot to do. And this album feels so weightless. The approach of it has been so weightless. It’s quite nice to be getting a chance to go back to some cities in a gentle way, to play some tunes in more of a gentle setting.
You’re going to be acting in a new drama, Mint. What made that the right project for you to pursue?
I’ve turned down a lot of things, and there’s so many things I wanted to do, but they haven’t been right. This was the first thing I’ve seen where it wasn’t a stereotype, where it wasn’t someone who looked like me that was falling into the things that have been solidified over however long. I had no interest in playing a stereotype. I wanted to see someone reflected that was sensitive, and emotional and had dimensions to them. So yeah, [Charlotte Regan,] who wrote it, she’s such a brilliant writer. Her approach was so creative and fantastical and childish in a way that I had no choice but to work on it with her. She’s incredible.
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With acting, are there things that you can explore or express that you can’t necessarily do with writing or rhyming?
Yeah, I think one is that there’s less pressure on me because I’m just a cog in the machine. Charlie, the director, she’s the figurehead of that ship. So to come in and be able to play a part and to offer ideas, but for it not to live and die on the decision … I love that freedom. But also, in music you’re selling yourself, but with this, I’m someone else. So at the end of the day, people like it, they don’t like it, they like me, they don’t like me — it’s got nothing to do with me. It’s got a lot to do with the character. I can hang it up at the end of the day and go home. Whereas with music, you take it home, take it to bed, you know what I mean? Take it in the shower, everywhere you go.
Going forward, how frequently could you see yourself acting?
I’m wrestling with that right now. It’s brilliant, but I don’t know if I can do it all the time. There’s so many things that have to work out for it to make sense. So I think it’ll be fleeting for now and I want to do it a lot, but I want to make sure I do the right things. I’ve almost got a second chance. So don’t want to fuck it up.
