The Cult’s Ian Astbury has spoken to NME about the recent resurgence of goth in pop culture – which sees “women picking up the swords and leading the way” – as well as how the band are looking to challenge the perception of being “a heritage act”.
The band’s ‘8424’ tour sees The Cult hit the road in celebration of their fourth decade together, and comes on the heels of their ‘8323’ Death Cult shows, which saw them revisit the first iteration of the band.
“For the last 18 months we’ve been going hard at doing a health check on everything that we’re involved in creatively, whether it’s Death Cult, The Cult or stuff that I’m doing outside of the band. We’re looking to repair some bridges and reconnect with real culture,” Astbury told us.
“We want to run down the perception that we’re just some heritage band who’s phoning it in, or that we’re tired and our best days are behind us. That kind of narrative implies we’ve lived in a rearview mirror.
“We’re in a renaissance,” he added. “This set we have planned has been curated in a certain way. We could have centred it around songs that are seven minutes long and far more complex in terms of arrangements and instrumentation, but that would be too much.”
He also explained how the latest performances have been “tailored” to them working as a four-piece, and “feel like an instantaneous, visceral gut punch [where] we get straight to the heart of it!”
“Yes, it’s the band’s 40th anniversary – which I really don’t care about – but it’s also an opportunity to reset.”
See NME’s full interview with Ian Astbury below, where he opened up about the history of goth and its resurgence in pop culture, as well as taking inspiration from David Bowie, his admiration of Ethel Cain, and plans for the future.
NME: Hi Ian, tell us what made you want to revisit your roots with the Death Cult anniversary shows last year?
Ian Astbury: “[The Cult] were huge and we were playing arenas, but I didn’t like the terms and conditions of that. What you had to do to be an iconic entertainer was asking too much. It was a professional career, but I was never interested in that. I never got into music as a career choice, I fell into it. I just believed in punk rock and I believed in creativity – that is Death Cult. Death Cult is way more intuitive and operates from emotional intelligence.
“When we hit the stage and I saw that we were connected, it was a thing of beauty. I don’t particularly care about the editorial perception of the band. We did Death Cult on our own terms then, and that’s what we’re doing now [with upcoming Cult shows].”
The theme of ‘goth’ has been at the core of your musical identity. Have you noticed a resurgence lately with things like The Crow remake, the Beetlejuice sequel, the upcoming Nosferatu film?
“Goth has never just been with bands. I’ve noticed the [rise of the] dark wave and our Jungian perspective of the shadow. There’s also been a rise of the divine feminine. For the most part, what I’m seeing is very very powerful women. Look at Lady Gaga, she’s playing a psychiatrist studying the shadow in the psyche [in Joker: Folie à Deux]… and that’s on the latest cover of Vogue! It’s been on the rise for quite a while. It was happening when Nietzsche came along and said ‘God is dead’, and with writers like Byron and Mary Shelley. This [interest] has been going on for a minute. I just think our current culture has accelerated our fascination with the shadow.
“We’re seeing it in the rise of female leads, whether it’s in the new Alien film, or Daisy Ridley in Star Wars or Lady Gaga in Joker – there’s a female, a Joan of Arc archetype, fighting some sort of shadow element. Gothic Futurism is a term that I think fits quite nicely for this moment and it’s something that’s being experienced globally. Women are picking up the swords and leading the way, and the men are getting out of the way.”
“All the old heritage guys who are holding on to their old values of misogyny and material power, they’re getting decimated. When women get together shit gets done. When dudes get together it’s a big sword fight.”
Siouxsie Sioux stands out as an artist who embodies those powerful, defiant traits. Have there been any new artists who you think are paving the way now?
“Ethel Cain. I was at one of her first shows. I saw her at the Fonda and I knew it from the get-go. Holy fuck, I was blown away! She’s very quickly been absorbed into mainstream culture, she’s walking for Marc Jacobs now, for example.”
“I’m interested in [experimental German folk band] Heilung now too. Those guys are doing a pagan folk, revivalist ritual thing. I went to see them at The Shrine in LA and people weren’t applauding, they were making intuitive animal sounds like coyotes and hawks! Their audience was so mixed too, and I loved that. That blend is what I’m pushing with The Cult. Just look at the artists we have performing with us, they tend to be individuals who are self-realised. [Danish folk singer-songwriter] Jonathan Hultén will blow you away too. I don’t know how to describe his music but he could be a sister to Ethel Cain. He wears veils, he’s made up like a romantic 19th Century Spanish widow, and he plays in front of a wall of flowers.”
Looking at these deep themes in goth that resonate with you, do you think people have been able to look beyond your biggest hits and fully grasp the nuance of the band?
“The thing about The Cult and me that a lot don’t understand is the nuance. They just look at what’s directly in front of them, but that’s the DNA of both the band and me as an individual. I was an immigrant kid who identified as ‘Other’ pretty much straight away. My mother was from Glasgow and my father was from Merseyside, so I travelled between those two cities and never settled. I was always nomadic and I’d quickly have to read the room to find other outsider kids like me. Usually they were all into Bowie!
“I’m just trying to go by my own intuitive compass. I feel fans do grasp the meaning on a visceral level, but not everything has to be explained. In fact, when everything is explained it takes you out of the relationship that you individually have with the art. I have that with [David Bowie’s final album, 2016’s] ‘Blackstar’. My relationship with it is different to what someone else’s would be.”
Speaking of Bowie, why would you say his legacy is still so far-reaching? Could it be through his blending of genres and refusal to conform to one identity?
“There was his blending of gender too. He was a pollinator, like a hummingbird or butterfly – he had a taste of everything. He was a true shaman and true alchemist because he could experiment with it and synergise it into whatever he was doing. Not just in his music, but also in film. He was in [1978’s] Just A Gigolo, playing a male escort essentially, but he also played the Goblin King [in 1986’s Labyrinth], but then he’ll break your heart in [1983 film] Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence.
“That is what was wonderful about an artist like Bowie. He was so intimate, yet he was both everywhere and nowhere at the same time. We’re in an industry where you have editorial policies and advertisers and people to answer to. If they say heritage rock is a thing of the past, it goes away because it’s not popular anymore. But if you still have an emotional relationship with it, all of that is irrelevant.
“I was inconsolable for about six or seven months [when he died]. I grieved and I couldn’t conceive a world without David in it. He’s still my well – I’ll always go back to Bowie. ‘Blackstar’ alone, what a gift he left us. That song ‘Seven Years In Tibet’ too. Fucking hell, I’ve got to cover that at some point.”
What does the future look like for The Cult?
“What does the future look like? No idea, it’s chaos right now. It’s absolute anarchy. The plan is to have no plan. The plan is to be intuitive and act in response to the moment. Career? What’s a career? Plans? There are no plans. Things are changing too rapidly. I have no plans, I’m just impulsive. Whatever hits me, it’s just how quickly we can turn things around.
“The Cult is its own animal. It’s a multi-headed hydra. Billy [Duffy, guitarist] has a very strong, tactile, pragmatic, Mancunian side to him and he holds ground. He grounds me because I’m just like lightning, I’ll be all over the place.
“I’m hoping to start dropping some more stuff outside of The Cult, and potentially The Cult can make more music, if there’s a desire too. But my deck is stacked – I’ve got to get to things that I’ve been working on for five, 10, 15, 20 years now. I did the Gathering of Tribes in 1990, so maybe another festival?”
The Cult will continue their tour through November with gigs in Portsmouth, Wolverhampton and London. Visit here for tickets and more information.
