Amaarae and Tinashe Aren’t Afraid to Match Each Other’s Freak

A
maarae is scrolling through the Notes app on her phone, which is crammed with questions and observations about Tinashe. When she was a teenager in Ghana, Amaarae was obsessed with the singer’s mix of melody and movement. It’s part of why she’s so excited about their Musicians on Musicians conversation: Amaarae counts Tinashe as one of the “GOATs.” 

Once the camera’s red light goes on, Amaarae slips the device away and recites her questions from memory. “No one can stop me. Only I can stop myself,” the Ghanaian American star tells Tinashe. “Do you know where that quote is from?”

“No, I don’t,” Tinashe replies.

“You said that,” Amaarae says with a smile. “I love that quote.”

The idea of being unstoppable seems to power both of their careers these days: Thanks to propulsive bangers like “Nasty” and the Disco Lines collaboration “No Broke Boys,” Tinashe is enjoying a thrilling second act more than a decade after her breakthrough hit “2 On.” Meanwhile, Amaarae made it big with her acclaimed 2023 album, Fountain Baby, which came after the runaway success of 2020’s “Sad Girlz Luv Money.” She’s been bringing in more global audiences with her latest LP, Black Star, where she explores the deep roots of electronic music.  

As Tinashe and Amaarae talk, they swap production secrets, parse out what pop even means, and weigh label pressure against the thrill of going indie. In other words, they meet — and match — each other’s freaks. 

Amaarae: “Is somebody going to match my freak?” was my mantra for two months straight. And it actually led me to the love of my life.

Tinashe: Really?

Amaarae: I swear to God, I found somebody who matched my freak. I wanted to know how personal your songwriting is for you. Is it a cathartic release, or do you use it as a method to get yourself into a headspace or to shed an old phase? What is that for you?

Watch the video interview below

Tinashe: I feel like it’s both. I think that’s the amazing thing about art and about songwriting. I’m not naturally the most outspoken when it comes to confrontation. I feel like music and art are the easiest way for me to get my emotions across and get things out. In a lot of ways, it is a cathartic release. But then, on the other hand, I also sometimes use music as a manifestation or to project an energy that I want to embody.

Amaarae: So did somebody match your freak?

Tinashe: No one matched my freak. But as long as I can bring freaks together, then the song is doing what it needs to do.

Amaarae: I was introduced to your music when I was 17, 18: Reverie, Blackwater, In Case We Die. Out of the three, Blackwater is my favorite. I think that you set the tone for what became trap soul. I think the production of Blackwater set the tone for what became the PARTYNEXTDOOR sound, the Bryson Tiller sound.

Tinashe: I made all these songs in my bedroom. I was producing some of the tracks, and then I was collaborating with people that I met on Twitter. Those projects were really special in that way. 

Amaarae: What are some things that you apply in your process now that you did then that kind of help you connect with that version of yourself?

Tinashe: It’s about reclaiming that spontaneousness, of being able to just make stuff from your soul and from your heart, and not really be so confined to what’s going to pop.

Amaarae: If there’s anyone in the music industry who knows what it’s like to have independent thought, and then have a bunch of people come in and start to tweak and tell you what to do, I feel like it’s you. I watched your Complex interview, where you spoke about Aquarius and Joyride, and you were like, “When you’re working with the Diplos and the Timbalands and the Max Martins, everyone has an idea of what you should do and be.” I’m curious about that process.

Tinashe: When I was initially creating music, it was “I don’t care. It’s whatever I want to do.” Finding the discernment to be able to know “OK, this is what I need to do.” I felt the pigeonholing in terms of genre. I felt that really held me back. They didn’t leave room for nuance. I’m happy to see that it is improving. Especially as a Black woman, a lot of times they see you and place you in certain areas.… When I went independent, and just started making my own art, that’s really when I was able to reclaim that for myself and get back to making things from an instinctual perspective. Do you ever feel like the genres placed on you sometimes either hold you back or help you? 

Amaarae: I just want to take all of the things that made me feel something as a child and reimagine them. No one was telling me what to do because I started off funding my own music. “Sad Girlz” went crazy independent. So after that, I had the cards. I think the first thing that I said to the label I ended up signing to was “I don’t want my music touched.” I came in with Fountain Baby finished.

Tinashe: Honestly, for me, it wasn’t an in-your-face denial of what I wanted to do. It was sneaky in a way. “OK, well these are the types of records that you can make. But if you want the money, funding, and platform, these records aren’t going to get you there.” 

Amaarae: What is a pop platform? There’s recognizability, which there are artists who have far more recognizability than me. I believe I will get to that with more sharpening. You don’t know pop until it slaps you in the face.

Tinashe: I agree. My music went through a period where it was challenged to be simpler and less complex. There were a lot of times where people were like, “Oh, we really don’t understand you. You’re very confusing.” How do you think your fans feel in terms of the shift in direction? 

Amaarae: Some found it very jarring. But either y’all are going to get it now or eventually, but that’s something that I’m willing to wait on. Some people just said it flat-out sucked. I was like, “That’s cap.” But I’ve seen the tide turn.

Tinashe: When I first listened to [Black Star], I noticed the commitment to the style and the feeling of the album.

Amaarae: I don’t like to be perceived as someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. 

Tinashe: How early on in the process did you know that this was the direction that you wanted?

Amaarae: I was making stuff like this for Fountain Baby. I went to Miami, and I worked with El Guincho. And I brought him samples. I was like, “All right, this is what we about to do.” “Starkilla,” that’s a song I heard when I was 13.

“Going to the strip club is like going to church.”

Amaarae

Tinashe: You just had a vision?

Amaarae: It started with the sample, and then we took the sample out and rewrote it for Bree Runway to redo it. It was a lot with the drum patterns.

Tinashe: As a dancer, and as someone of African descent, I feel like I’m very drawn in by the drums and how they make me feel. Black Star feels like almost basically every single track is a song that you could dance to. Is that intentional?

Amaarae: Absolutely. You know why? Because I be onstage bored.

Tinashe: You have to put songs in that you have fun performing.

Amaarae: This is the most fun I’ve ever had performing an album, because it’s so bouncy and so upbeat, and it never stalls. 

Tinashe: I think the drums really drive the song. A lot of times, they’re really the heartbeat of what the record is. 

Amaarae: I will either start with a concept, or I’ll start with the melody. I have a song on Black Star called “B2B.” I went to my co-writer, and I was like, “You know how the DJs be going B2B [back-to-back], right? There’s the meme on Twitter where the girl is masturbating, but she’s DJ’ing.” And I was like, “It would be so fire to make a song about two girls going B2B, and the B2B is the sex, but can we write it as if it’s DJ’ing.”

Tinashe: Do you just sit in your room and think about it? What’s your process for coming up with concepts?

Amaarae: The strip club. I’m not even joking. So many songs for Black Star were born in the strip club or in the midst of baddies.

Tinashe: Where’s your favorite strip club? Let’s get into the good stuff. 

Amaarae: The two best strip clubs in life that I’ve gone to? Hole-in-the-walls. One is Macombos in D.C. Shout-out to Pink. She got the pineapple tattoo. 

Tinashe: Where’s the second one?

Amaarae: Austin, Texas. I went to Austin City Limits. I don’t even remember the name of this joint. But let me tell you something. Do you know why I like those two? The hosting was crazy. So Macombos, they all line up and come and shake the hand of every single patron and say, “Thank you.”

Tinashe: That’s so kind, so thoughtful, polite. Five stars on Yelp.

“I have so much respect for the artist that I was when I first got in the game, because nobody could tell me anything. I was so determined.”

Tinashe

Amaarae: And shout-out to Lil T in Austin, Texas. Lil T is maybe slightly shorter than you, tatted-up white girl, no ass. But she shook that motherfucker…. Oh, man, she shook that motherfucker.

Tinashe: I feel like every time I’m at the strip club, I always bond with them on a personal level.

Amaarae: Going to the strip club is like going to church. That’s my tithe for the year. I go to the strip club to tithe. Yes, ma’am. And as you can see, the ideas are free-flowing, by the grace of God. Seriously, the strip club is a very big influence for me, but also just being in the midst of beautiful women. 

Tinashe: Are you more locked in when you’re in love or when it’s toxic?

Amaarae: Fountain Baby was toxic. Black Star, I was just in a cleaner, much more reciprocal love. I don’t think that people really stop to think about how GOAT’d you are. Songs for You was 2019. That was your first independent release?

Tinashe: Mm-hmm. I’ve been focused in the past five years on just following an instinctual part of me and not really considering what was holding me back. I think that I really achieved that. I think on a spiritual level, people can feel when the music is coming from a genuine place. I have so much respect for the artist that I was when I first got in the game, because nobody could tell me anything. I was so determined. I had this unwavering sense of what I wanted to achieve, and that’s something that’s been tested over the years, but it’s never something that I’ve lost. I think that is the sole reason why I’m still in the game.

Amaarae: Do you like touring?

Tinashe: I love touring. But I have a really hard time doing both at once. Some people can make a project and be on tour at the same time. I feel like I have to give all my energy to the project, and then all my energy to promoting it, and then all my energy to the tour. Do you like touring? 

Amaarae: I love to perform. I hate to tour. I’m a real homebody. I don’t really go out even.

Tinashe: I mean, your music sounds like you go out.

Amaarae: I have a shell personality, and that’s who Amaarae is. All the music that you guys hear is just my imagination of a personality.

Tinashe: Really?

Amaarae: Twenty percent is the persona within. It’s not something that I just made up, but it’s something that’s within. But 80 percent of who I am, I’m very quiet. Touring completely just discombobulates me. 

Tinashe: I can definitely relate to having different personalities. There’s your true self, and then there’s also your artist self. My artist self isn’t any less of my true self. It’s just a different part of my true self.

Amaarae: You know Severance? That’s my artist self when I get into that split. When I’m done, I don’t even remember 500 percent of what happened because when I come back to myself, I really have to be just Ama. How have you been able to navigate changes in the industry as time goes on?

Tinashe: It’s always maintaining a sense of who you are, your own identity. At the end of the day, trends come and go. If you’re too tied to what’s popular, you can easily lose yourself.

Amaarae: What do you think is down the line for you?

Tinashe: Five years down the line, I think I’ll still be creating music. I still have a lot that I want to share and give and create, and achieve. I’m definitely still writing this story. Ten years from now? I can’t predict. I think it could go so many different directions. I just love creating things. I don’t have a very rigid plan. Do you?

Amaarae: I have zero plans, but what I do know is that my body can’t tour forever, so we’re going to have to call it quits at some point. I really want to get into executive production for other artists. I love having a vision and deconstructing it just to put it back together. Are there any other businesses that you’re into that are helping to keep your music career going?

Tinashe: I’ve got some things that I’m working on. They’re still secret. 

Amaarae: Are any parts of your body insured? Are your vocal cords insured?

Tinashe: No. Oh, my God. Are you insured?

Amaarae: Oh, yeah. But you know what? My mom owns an insurance company with my brother. Do you have life insurance?

Tinashe: Yeah. The whole me is insured, but not specific things.

Amaarae: Your legs, because you’re a dancer. Wow. You got to get on that.

Tinashe: You’re not wrong!

Amaarae: You can call us. GGMB Insurance! We got you. Car, house, anything. [Both laugh.]